Army list discussions

[PB_Zephyr]

I believe the round table thread has undergone a schism so we can have a semi-circle discussion about army list creation and criticism in here. Along with an army list and points cost you'll probably want to tell us why you picked certain units and or how you expect your army to work as well as questions about improvement. This way, your fellow guild-mates' imput can be more informed and helpful.

[PG_FavoriteChoirBoy]

Heres an army list I particularly like!

Kreoss (64): He's always been good to me. His spells are well rounded, his feat is killer, and hes pretty tough. All around still my favorite caster!

Reckoner (126): The Reckoner is a beast of a Warjack. Pretty well rounded, and able to tango with just about any other jack and come out on top

Seneschal x2 (34 each, 68 total): Not only fitting in with the Exemplar theme, the Seneschal is able to give extra orders if need be, and they hit REALLY hard. A second one in back makes an excellent StopGap for anyone fleeing, or anything that manages to get around behind the main lines.

Knights Exemplar (69): My personal favorite for troops, these guys are equally as good at intimidating the enemy as slicing them to little bits!

Choir (18): A single choir to buff my Reckoner and keep it safe at a distance

Zealots- Leader + 8 +Monolith Bearer (79): Some extra bodies to make Menoth proud! These guys are unbridled destruction incarnate. The Monolith Bearer makes them extra nasty, too.

Deliverers (46) : A minimum unit still gets 6 shots, and theyre great for getting the drop on your opponents squishy infantry! Widowmakers and Eryss beware!!

Eryss (29): The Elf bith has a way of being in almost all of my armies. Shes useful, even if only as a fire magnet. She scares a lot of people into making a mistake or two, which Im learning to capitalize on!

Thats it, 499 points of Menoths glory!! What say ye?

[Zexsudel]

To pick apart you list...
Kreoss: for starters like all Menoth caster he is easy to hit. 14 def isnt anything special. Espically when people have troops over jacks with a higher defense. He is almost require to keep PoM on himself to stay alive once he lose his meat shields.

Reckoner: He is good but costly. Thats his only real drawback is the price. He is better with the old man for holy vigel. 14 def heavy makes for a tough time for your opponent.

Seneschal. they are nice but again, easy to pop. 1 good bile thrall or spell can toast them. It might require a boosting but its not hard. Most people attack them last too to make sure they stay down. Only fools attack them first.

Choir: nothing wrong here. For their cost they are great. Max choir is even better. only costing you a few more points. I play HR too so they are extra souls.

Zealots. A menoth army with these guys and the monolith bearer is just plan stupid. they are cheap and pack some nice move.

Deliverers: I hate these guy becasue of how they make a turn last. Espically in tournament play where you only have 1 hour to play a round, these guy ruin the fun for everybody I think. plus not to mention how people like to fight over whats hit with the template. I will take 2 sunburst and save myself the time, the hassle, and the points.

Eiryss: well she is the elf. See the other thread for a good look at her from Andrew.

Here is the list I have been using most commonly with the HR

HR (52): the cheapest caster in the game and one of the best. He benifits from losing and of course everybody benifits from winning

Revengers x2 (152) Cheap arc nodes for channeling burning ash through, not to mention those shield make them annoying to anybody without reach

Wracks x3 (15) So let me get this straight. they are bomb that gives my caster focus, AND he can collect a soul off it. 2 focus for 5 points? I am sold.

Knight Exemplar (69) Not sure about these guys. templates finish them off quick and for their cost its not worth it too much... aless you use my tatic below.

Sunburst: (18) make life easy, and still can blow hold into your opponent. There is a trick here. Hit your own jack if need be to get the extra damage.

Senshcal x1 (34) Usually hangs around my tfg so when their captian dies they can still charge and run. Not to mention they also die fairly easy in combat so he can get that bonus and health from it. And again collecting souls.

2 tfg units. 8 troopers each ( 154 points) alot of tfg... why. 11 inch charge basically is why. Thats massive. 6 inch move, 3 inch charge and 2 inch reach. They are great for clearing your opponent front line.

Max zealots with bearer (84) 'nuff said.

Here is the thing. Spent the first few turns moving your army foward keeping they tightly together and using the arc node at the side to blanket them in burning ash. This way you dont get hit. When you get close enough have the tfg charge into the front rank, and be close enough to collect their souls. Make sure to channel a burnins ash onto the HR and maybe some onto the TFG so they are less likely to get hit. Then use the zealots to finish off stranglers, and the knight to work down the jacks. By then have soulstorm up and using the HR to help clear off your oppoent infanty. Break them down to just their caster. When need be use Resusstion to summon the zealots back. with them and the HR you can stop most caster, minus a few ones get tough. Remember if to cast burning ash after your attacks. The -2 mat makes a difference.

[PB_Zephyr]

My list that I hope to use is as follows:

- Stryker(64)

- ATGMCA(32)
- Leeland(25)
- 1 Stormsmith(12)

- Max Sword Knights(92 total, 9 each)
- Min Trenchers(83)

- Lancer(76)
- Centurion*(113)

pts: 497

My problem with the list is that it has slim to no powerful ranged attacks. I was thinking of changing the Centurion out for a Defender (122 pts) but that would require me to get rid of a stormsmith or a sword knight. Do you think the exchange is worth it? I think most of you out there know how I play, this is kind of a "defensive" list, and this time I'm bringing my most successful caster, Stryker, to the table. Hopefully the list that I created will mesh well but I'd like some imput before I commit to it. Thanks

EDIT: I could also switch the cent out for a Hunter, along with either 2 more stormsmiths, 2 more trenchers, or a trencher chain gun. Whaddya think?

[PG_FavoriteChoirBoy]

- Stryker(64) : A good choice. Stryker is one of my least favorite casters to fight. Hes solid, and well rounded.

- ATGMCA(32) : Another good choice. Keep him right near the caster and use him to drop solos and anything that threatens your casters or solos.
- Leeland(25) : .....CURSE YOU LEELAND!!!
- 1 Stormsmith(12) : As much as I like smiths, I dunno how valueable one is gonna be. Yes, its still an extra shot, but having 2 or 3 makes them infinately more vauleable.

- Max Sword Knights(92 total, 9 each) : Scary! Sword Knigts frighten me, theyre pretty good at dismantling warjacks, plus, theres a lot of them to run through before the unit becomes too weak to ignore
- Min Trenchers(83) : This is a utility unit I guess..mostly just for throwing smoke bombs. Be careful here..min units can be pretty lame, especially with the high point cost of Trenchers.

- Lancer(76): Always take an Arc Node. Good choice.
- Centurion*(113): I like the Centurion, actually. Its a solid jack, and the fact that it cant be charged is awesome. Good choice.


Over all, a good list, but its kinda low on the body count (maybe thats just the Menite in me talking), and high on the VP side. Anyway, try this army out and make sure it works for ya. If I may offer a suggestion, why not go Melee crazy, drop the Trenchers, and bring a unit of Stormblades! Use the GMCA and the Stormsmith to drop any solos and soften up the shooty units, then hit the enemy line with a combined attack of Sword Knights and Stormblades.

[SilentGunner]

personally i play a similar list.
stryker(64)
Journeyman(25)
Centurion(113)
Max sword Knights(76 points plus 9 a piece)-112
Trencher chain gun(28)
GMCA w/ GM unit(90+32)-122

which leaves me w/ 36 more points...i cant remember what else i put in. It was either eiryss, or 3 storm smiths. i found that it gives you a good balance to shooting and combat and leaves stryker and the journeyman to do what they please.

[PB_Zephyr]

Ok Fox, how's this:

Stryker(64)
ATGMCA(32)
Leeland(25)
Stormblades w/ UA(127)
*Stormsmith(12)
*Swordnights(92)
2 Lancers(152)

total pts: 504

Now the obvious problem is that I have 4 too many pts. This could be relieved by taking out a swordnight or a stormsmith. I like the smith because all I have to do is roll an 8 or lower and I get to disrupt any jack within 10" and disable it's arcnode for a turn. I included the UA w/ the stormblades because this way hopefully they'll get a couple of sniped controlled fire shots off which are much more powerful than Defender bullets (otherwise the SBlades only have a pitiful 4 RAT.) This means I will most likely keep them in reserve for the begining of the game so that my leaders don't get sniped. 2 Lancers will play with the enemies head and I can have 2 arcane shield spells up at once (stryker+Leeland.) Do you think this is a better approach?

[PG_FavoriteChoirBoy]

I still like my Sentinel idea!! but

Id say drop Sword Knight. They'll still have enough power to do the damage they need to, and the smith will be needed for the disruption.

[Orthosofthecold]

Alright my current army list is as follows

-Kommander Sorscha (71)

-Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (15)

-Manhunter (22)

-Doom Reavers (100)

-Widowmakers (53)

-Min. Ironfang Pikemen +2 (59)

-Greylord Ternion (43)

-Eiryss (29)

-Max. Kossite Woodsmen (91)

Total: 501

[PG_FavoriteChoirBoy]

Mr Shwenks-

You're one point over!!

Id STRONGLY suggest you find room for the Unit Attachment for your IFPs. They're not nearly as good without it.

As cool as the Kossites are, I'd suggest you drop them, and use the 90 spare points for the attachment and maxing out your IFPs. If you have points left over, then maybe toss in the minimum unit of Kossites, or maybe a mortar. They just aren't that great. Yes, I know they have their merits, but they just dont fit here.

Otherwise, its a solid list. I hate Sorcha

[Zexsudel]

Total: 501

Not going to fly at least in my eyes. Its at or below 500 points. 501 is in violation of the tournament rules. Sorry.

[hewhoneversleeps]

List looks pretty solid. However I'm curious on how you would counter some of the jack heavy armies that are fielded.
The IF pikemen are good only if they can get the charge off. One decent circular-strike or AOE and your anti-jack unit is kaput.
I realize you can use Eiryss, the Greylords, and Sorscha to keep jacks pinned down and out of focus, but one or two heavies will easily crush those units.
So I guess I'd agree with Fox and say max out the IF or add the unit attachment and think about arranging your forces for a Juggernaut or maybe a Berserker if you have one.

Might as well post my list that I have constructed (not for Metal Madness, but for general tournies/games)

Magnus the Traitor (69)
-Mangler (105)
-Renegade (65)

Eiryss (29)

Herne and Jonne (42)

Boomhowler & 8 Trollkin (132)

Gorman Di Wulfe (28)

Rupert Carvolo (22)

Total: 492

[Orthosofthecold]

i may drop a few kossites to get the unit attachment back in, i may even field a berzerker just to add a little armor to it.

@kako, ill change it for our tourney but I've been informed that a one point overage for the NJ tourney wont be a problem so thats not gonna be a problem.

[grotesquefreak9]

for the tournament i'm thinking i will use this:
skarre 66
skarlock 16
bile thralls+1 47
2 satyxis+3 158
2 pistol wraiths 66
Bloat thrall 28
stalker 64
nightwretch 44
necrotech 9

total 498
i still don't know about the stalker, if i don't use him i'll use a deathripper 2 more satyxis, and an aditional bile thrall. The point of this army is to kill the caster without getting close to him. Skarre casts backlash on a warjack, and satyxis charge in. for every hit with their whips they do 2 damage to the warcaster. If she pops her feat that turn they'll be even better at hitting. If skarre charges and 8 satyxis can fit in, if they all hit the caster will take 18 damage. The pistol wraiths run through the army and pick off leaders and solos from a high point that is away from arc nodes and casters. The bile thralls and the blost thrall quickly take out anything squishy. The only problem is against aoe's and strafe shot. I don't have any heavy jacks, but i'm relying on my opponent to have one or two. The problem i have with Skarre is that she does not have soul cages so i have to keep her close to the Skarlock. I'm also worried about Skarre beating herself up because most tournament scenarios are caster kill.

[PG_FavoriteChoirBoy]

For a caster assassination list, thats pretty solid, but its otherwise fragile. I guess you're gonna have to be quick to pull it off, and maybe have a smattering of luck, but otherwise you should be pretty sucessful against most casters. Feora and the Butcher, on the other hand...