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Post by PB_Zephyr on May 1, 2005 17:25:24 GMT -5
Alright, so it seems like Jackhead will be sending some representatives to quite a few tournements in the comming months. I propose that we set aside our differences for the moment and help each other out a bit. We all should be working on army lists to bring to battle and maybe they will be including some new units that we haven't gotten too much experience with yet. Perhaps we could post potential army lists for Steam Stampede and or Origins and get some imput from our guild mates, especially those from other factions. I think the best intel one can hear from other players is which units strike the most fear into an opponent, which solos a player curses at under his or her breath when seen from across the table. I think if we get a round table discussion going that Jackhead members might be able to start making a name for themselves in these tournys, and if we're lucky, maybe taking home some metal. Just an idea I had, post if you're interested. I look forward to some informative tactical discussion. [EDIT]: This has turned into more of a "what scares you" topic so we'll keep with that heh. If you want a more concise disscusion on specific army lists, a new thread has been created for that. See jackhead.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=warroom&action=display&thread=1115100193
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Post by Zexsudel on May 1, 2005 23:26:05 GMT -5
very good point. I made this thread sticky so it says at the top. Granted its like 1am and my head is ringing from a concert so I have no input on the subject matter other than.. BILE THRALLS R BORKEN
good night
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Post by PB_Zephyr on May 2, 2005 9:02:50 GMT -5
Pwned!... I mean Pinned! lol. Coolness, now let's get some generals in here.
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Post by PG_FavoriteChoirBoy on May 2, 2005 19:44:14 GMT -5
Heres my general opinion, as it stands, for each army, over several posts: Cygnar: You guys have, hands down, the best solos EVER. No Cygnar army should ever be without a Journeyman; 25 points for that guy is a friggin' steal. Same goes for the GMCA, who is awesome for plugging other solos and picking on enemy Warcasters from across the table. Stormsmiths create a nasty combo when fielded together, but even one or two can still be scary. Your units are pretty scary too. Sword Knights, I recently learned, spell doom for any jack nearby. Stormblades have always been a particular favorite of mine, except when theyre across the field from me. They've got to be one of the most versatile units yet, and they excell at everything they do, especially with the addition of the UA. Longgunners are the staple shooty troop, and they're pretty frightening en masse, but theyre pretty squishy, so I'm not *that* scared of them. Trenchers...oh god the Trenchers. Theyre so damn tough to shift, and their ability to throw smoke bugs the crap out of me. As far as specializing goes, your jacks are some of the best. They may not be as tough as your Menite and Khadoran counterparts, but they can do some pretty cool stuff. The Sentinel is MADE for hosing light armor troops (like my choir ), the Centurion is one of the best defencive jacks yet, cuz it stops everyone in their tracks. Even the most basic jack, the Ironclad, has that awesome Knockdown ability. Cygnar casters...ugh. I hate you guys. Between Nemo's anti-jack capability, Caine's pistols, Strykers Earthquake, and Haleys TB, I just cant stand these little snots. Fortunately, except for Stryker, they're pretty easy to kill, once you can lock them down. So, in conclusion, heres the stuff I hate the most: ALL the Cygnar solos. Stormblades Trenchers Sentinel Centurion Stormclad Lancer ALL the Warcasters.
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Post by PG_FavoriteChoirBoy on May 2, 2005 19:58:11 GMT -5
Khador:
Nothing beats Khador for versatility and sheer hitting power!
Solos: Ok..the angry lawn gnome isn't terribly scary, but he can be a pain in the butt sometimes. Hes really only good against other solos, and even then, hes kinda a one-shot deal. Though, for 22 points, hes not too shabby. The Kovnik, on the other hand, is a god damn monster. The toughest Solo in the game, he's basicly a Light Warjack on crack. The Jack Marshal ability is nice and all, but Im more afraid of his hitting power! That axe is huge for a reason!! Fortunately, hes pretty slow, so you can really prepare for his arrival before its too late.
Units: Iron Fangs...Iron Fangs...I can't say it enough. Thanks to Mr. Schwenke, these guys have been a pain in I disagree on more occasions than I care to remember. I hate the fact that they trump my Flameguard in every way for only a point more! Argh! A word of advice: Always always always take the unit attachment. It makes the unit SO much scarier in so many ways.
Widowmakers...ok..theyre the ultimate snipers, yes. My only problem with them is that they're way too squishy against AOE attacks. Keep them away from the 'splodey stuff, and you should be just fine. These guys are the best way to drop unit leaders and solos. Avoid shooting Warjacks unless no other target presents itself, because 4 boxes is good, but not quite worth it, in my opinion.
Doomreavers are big and scary and Menoth hates them because spells dont affect them! Be sure to space them out whenever possible, and, if you can, try to engage multiple targets, especially Warjacks. The way I see it, if they can eliminate a whole unit, they'll turn on each other, and thats just not good. I see them as a way to soften up the really tough stuff like Jacks, Casters, and the like.
Man-O-Wars. Lots of potential here, but I think they make better caster bodyguards than anything else. They can dish out some real damage, but they can take a lot more!
Kossites. I havent really faced them much yet, but they seem like a great way to drop the support units, and get the drop on the weaker Warcasters.
Warjacks: Jeezus friggin christ. How much armor can you pile onto a pair of legs!
The Destroyer is, in my eyes, probably the best warjack out there. Long range shooting, absolutely brutal in melee, and piles and piles of armor make this a must-have for any Khador player interested in Warjacks
Im not sure why people hate the Marauder and the Juggernaught. People say they dont do enough, but the Marauder is absolutely brutal against other Warjacks, and the Juggernaught hits harder than any other jack in the game, plus the open fist is good for just about everything.
Speaking of Open Fists, Who doesnt love the Kodiak?? Two open fists, AND a farting problem?? Man, its a beast. Thats all I have to say about it.
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Post by PG_Hevy Phyzx on May 2, 2005 20:44:39 GMT -5
OK, you have seen my army in action, it is a pretty standard Cygnar list, but it works pretty well. Here it is: Haley JWC GMCA Lancer Defender Trenchers (basic troop) Longgunners (Full Troop)
I call this troop, Haley's Hunters.
I usually run the Defender with the JWC, which allows Haley to us her focus for...CHAIN LIGHTNING or Scramble. I use them more often than I do TB, especially Chain L against troop heavy armies. Say goodbye to Biles, and Choirs in one fell swoop. Great thing about CL...No stealth to get in the way of the extra targets.
Haley is my favorite of the Cygnar Casters.
I have been experimenting with a Stormclad, Stormblade troop composition, but haven't settled on a Caster yet. Although I ran the following troop against Desolator who was using Skarre and had some pretty good success... Nemo JWC 3 Stormsmiths Stormblades + UA Stormclad (marshalled by Stormblade Lt.) Lancer (for Nemo)
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Post by Zexsudel on May 2, 2005 21:25:40 GMT -5
personally I have been using the High Reclaimer for my main staple caster. Though, those that know me, know how i change my list every game about. The only issue I have with the HR is the lack of hard hitting power. I guess i need to field a heavy jack or something to crack those tough nuts but with a ctrl of 10" it seems a little pointless. Trying to come up with a solution is tough becayse despite how cool knights are, they just plan cant match a nice pow 18 hit to the face. Plus the HR needs alot of planning to take him against another caster. Granted againt other troops he owns them all. Soulstorm is nasty nasty Playing against other armies I have learned a few things. Khador casters are nasty. Despite who it is, none of them are to be taken lightly. I have wiped out whole Khador armies in a matter of turns and still lots due to their caster. This tatic I had used againt me worked well though. Skarre caste feedback on a jack and the satyxis use their whips. Granted it didnt kill my caster but it forced me to use focus, plus losing a jack to it. Here is the thing I have found the most dangerous. That one last bile thralls. So oftne I kill all but one of them and being undead they dont turn tail and run for the hills like most infanty does at that point. That one bile thralls puts a huge chunck into a HR list. Granted the focus is nice afterwards but aless he is in range (13" max with his 5 mov and 8" for immolate) it means nothing. Which brings me to another point. Even with 18 focus or something nuts like that having a 5 base focus for offensive spells sucks. you are required to boost to hit anything (5+7=12def on 2d6, and 5+10=15 def on 3d6 using median rolls) and even then 15 def hits nothing really fast. Pistol Wraiths on a hill... can;t hit them.....any caster (other than the old man club and Kreoss) cant hit.... it just plan sucks... There are my 2 cp on the HR and my most common foe Cryx
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Post by PB_Zephyr on May 2, 2005 21:59:14 GMT -5
I'll just clump all my thoughts on general unit/jack types and special rules together in one post. I'd say it's always scarier to face a unit of 10 dudes than only 6. My thinking is, if you have 10 guys and say I have a unit that can't max like say ATGMs then I'm at a severe disadvantage. If you have the min squad of 6, all I have to do is pop one and I've gained superiority in numbers and that makes me feel a little better. However if you have 10, I'd have to kill at least 4 to just break even, and by the time that happens (assuming my incosistant rolling) it might be too late. Shield wall, oh how I dispise it. One of the reasons might be jealousy (cyg figs don't get it) but I think the main reason is more practical. Sheild wall makes those 10 guys from before even harder to kill. And the longer your troops can last, the closer they can get to me. It's very imposing. I get wary of anything with reach, 'jack or trooper, especially since I'm lacking. Reach allows for you to get the jump on your opponent and increases your charge range by 2 inches! ahh! I hate that. Cygnar doesn't have any units with reach so it's tough for me to approach units like that... unless... maybe I knock them down somehow hehe. Widowmakers or anything that can just do a point of damage reguardless or ARM (ie breath of corruption) is a pain. Even though they may be squishy, they'll make me divert firepower as well as restrict my movement till they are taken care of. You should expect them to die eventually, but place them with cover and a good view of the battlefield and you have a good temporal buffer to slow the opposition. Stealth (or choir no-shooty) RAWR. Being Cygnar I do rely on ranged attacks quite a bit. Even though I play with a melee style, these stealth units usually are able to mop the floor with my sword-toters, so not being able to shoot them from a far gives me a head ache. Always keep these units just out of range of other melee units (remember to factor in charge range and reach) to keep your opponent at bay. Tough / damned near impossible to kill warcasters. I've grouped these together as things that just refuse to die. These are very annoying because you either think you put enough power into a shot only to come to find out that they're hanging on by ONE life box, or in the case of tough, they just get back up. And usually if you've been able to get a warcaster down that low you're in pretty close, and it won't look to good next turn heh. Worst part is, casters can just pull back and recharge their life which makes it so you'll have to try again later. Spells that restrict movement or DEF grrr. I rely on my speed a lot in games so anything that slows me down is going to cause a lot of problems. Worse yet, it allows the opponent more (and sometimes better) chances to hit me. Restricting charges also throw carefully laid battle plans out the window. Well I think that's enough for right now. I'll post later when I think of other things. Here's a handy-dandy summary of my post for those laz.... well everyone. Things that R scary-Max units -Max units w/ sheild wall -Max units w/ sheild wall and reach -Attacks that inflict points of damage reguardless of ARM -Stealth -Tough units -Hard-to-kill Warcasters (those with high ARM) -Spells that restric movement , charging, and/or lower DEF
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Post by PG_FavoriteChoirBoy on May 2, 2005 22:20:40 GMT -5
As far as the stuff that scares me: Combined attack (range or melee) Automatic damage Stealth Focus deinal Lowered Defence I like my Knights Exemplar, and automatic damage nullifies their greatest asset in the armor increase. I don't have any units that can ignore stealth, unless I get lucky in a deviation or some splash damage. Focus is essential to Menoth, because of our buffer spells and the need to boost jack attacks, so spells like Scramble, Disrupt, and the ninja bith can really put a damper on any Menites battle plan (thats why I try to take her out early on. Our defence is usually low enough, so to lower it further is just plain bad. Fortunately, we can usually return the favor (Kreoss is still my favorite caster for that reason )
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Post by Zexsudel on May 2, 2005 23:40:02 GMT -5
Wow, I should really get that Cryx army going. then you both will hate me. I will have stealth, and auto damage, and hinderous spells... and....a partridge in a pair tree
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Post by PG_FavoriteChoirBoy on May 3, 2005 18:46:56 GMT -5
Im considering running a Menoth army with no Warjacks, but I'm a bit skeptical.. our infantry is good, but our jacks are pretty powerful. I dont have a lot that hits quite as hard as the Crusader, or the Reckoner..and my ranged support is long distanced, but highly unreliable. What do you guys think? Especially you fellow Menites out there.
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Post by SilentGunner on May 3, 2005 19:20:37 GMT -5
to that i have one word...CAINE
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Post by hewhoneversleeps on May 3, 2005 19:25:43 GMT -5
Well since the talk has been mostly about Khador, Cygnar, and Menoth I figure I'll add my input about the Mercs. Well at least the mercs I play (Which means no Gorten).
Warcasters- Magnus: Well nothing can keep this guy down. I have won a game just by plain dumb luck with him (much to Fox's dismay). He's has one of the best upkeep spells in the game, Frenzy. Toss it on a jack and fill it up with focus next turn, making it much easier for an anti-jack charge. Blur is a very good spell for facing down long range armies. The only downside to Magnus' spells are they're large cost for the decent ones and his jacks reliance on focus to keep them going. With only 6 focus, Magnus is not able to match wits with majority of 7+ focus casters. Magnus is rather weak in his stat line, while but his weapons and skills make up for it. Foecleaver is a decent weapon as long as you have focus. His fist is just plain wonderful, knock someone down to set them up for a charge or prevent them from chasing after you when you let looses with the feat. Speaking of the feat, Hit & Run is exactly how it works. In a bad spot on the board, hit the feat for a instant adjust. I most of the time use it to drop backward rather than push forward, thus saving Magnus' ass many times.
Solos- Herne and Jonne: One of the ultimate infantry kills. Scattershot rapes infantry, as long as you get it to scatter correctly. POW 14 does a lot of damge to high toughness foes as well. When the duo stands still Jonne jumps up to a RAT of 8 which is quite hefty. However, the downside to the team is that Jonne himself is very slow, preventing from moving forward to meet the opponents infantry and making it hard to get away from certain units. In addition Herne is almost too fragile to survive. And without Herne, Jonne alone doesn't stand out as decent.
Eiryss: Elf-bith is the annoying gnat to most players. Give her an inch and she'll take a mile. Distruptor bolts stop arc nodes and casters for a turn. Phantom seekers allow you to sit behind a wall and pick on weaker infantry. Death bolt allows her to take down tougher infantry. With a great RAT she can easily jump to and fro picking targets as she pleases. However the downsides to Eiryss are very dabilitating. Her inability to be near friendly jacks makes her often set far apart from the rest of your forces where she could do some good. Her armor is low enough to make a deliever's sword look like Lola.
Reinholt: The goblin with the most balls this side of the Bloodstone Marshes. Reinholt doesn't stand up well to combat of any kind, but he does give you some very insightful abilities. Spyglass is wonderful for you ranged weapons when you think you are just out of range. Reload is only good when your caster has a nice gun and decent RAT. Lucky Charm helps out those casters that do like to end up in the mess of things. But again, he's not meant to be near a fight.
Warjacks and Units next time.
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Post by SilentGunner on May 3, 2005 19:27:36 GMT -5
and since every one is putting in their 2 cents worth...i guess i shall as well...
The army i seem to have the most rouble with is cryx. This is because...The direct damage. However the trick to getting rid of that annoyance is to take down the bone jacks as quick as possible. I also cant stand Bile thralls.
Khador armys are my favorite armies to play against because of how many different strategies you have to utilize to keep your self from being a stain in the carpet. However That damned blood of kings really gets me wishing for lamentation.
Menoth...i find the power of their magic to be stiffling at best. However trenchers and a good chain gun ussually do the trick agains the infantry. The jacks on the other hand...good luck. I'd rather go against the caster.
the toughest thing for me however is finding an army list that can hit hard in melee and with range and still be able to take some hitz.
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Post by Zexsudel on May 5, 2005 10:39:29 GMT -5
Well besides cryx's bile thralls the army is squishy enough I can deal with them. Khador like i said I have trouble with. They have too much armor, and way too many damage boxes. Any suggustion on how to deal with them using a HR list??
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